Comments on: The Church Conundrum http://underthegrace.com/?p=47 it is for freedom that Christ has set us free Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:35:28 -0400 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Barb http://underthegrace.com/?p=47&cpage=1#comment-49 Barb Thu, 15 May 2008 19:34:48 +0000 http://underthegrace.com/?p=47#comment-49 By all means read it quickly. You will not believe the freedom that you will feel and the questions that it will answer. You can download it for free at lifestream.com on the side tab under Jakes story. By all means read it quickly. You will not believe the freedom that you will feel and the questions that it will answer. You can download it for free at lifestream.com on the side tab under Jakes story.

]]> By: Jeff http://underthegrace.com/?p=47&cpage=1#comment-48 Jeff Thu, 15 May 2008 16:50:16 +0000 http://underthegrace.com/?p=47#comment-48 <strong>Davida</strong> - Stories are welcome and I relate to the love-hate thing. Blessings! <strong>Barb</strong> - No, I haven't read that one yet, but I would like to. I think it might help get me off the obligation/religion hook. Peace to you. Davida – Stories are welcome and I relate to the love-hate thing. Blessings!

Barb – No, I haven’t read that one yet, but I would like to. I think it might help get me off the obligation/religion hook. Peace to you.

]]> By: Barb http://underthegrace.com/?p=47&cpage=1#comment-46 Barb Thu, 15 May 2008 14:07:41 +0000 http://underthegrace.com/?p=47#comment-46 Jeff, Since you mentioned Lifestream, have you read So You Don't Want to go to Church Anymore by Wayne? This book was instrumental in my life as I walked out of the Institutional Church. I had no choice on whether to leave or not but it helped me in the guilt and craziness I would have felt in the aftermath. Blessings Jeff, Since you mentioned Lifestream, have you read So You Don’t Want to go to Church Anymore by Wayne? This book was instrumental in my life as I walked out of the Institutional Church. I had no choice on whether to leave or not but it helped me in the guilt and craziness I would have felt in the aftermath.
Blessings

]]> By: Davida http://underthegrace.com/?p=47&cpage=1#comment-44 Davida Thu, 15 May 2008 05:17:45 +0000 http://underthegrace.com/?p=47#comment-44 jeff, thank you for letting my share a bit of my story here. :-) and really, it is a love-hate relationship that i have with 'church'. hehe jeff, thank you for letting my share a bit of my story here. :-)

and really, it is a love-hate relationship that i have with ‘church’. hehe

]]> By: Jeff http://underthegrace.com/?p=47&cpage=1#comment-43 Jeff Thu, 15 May 2008 01:22:05 +0000 http://underthegrace.com/?p=47#comment-43 Davida… thank you so much for sharing your story. Its funny but life can be so lonely sometimes. Even in a crowd. That's how I'm feeling right now. But I appreciate the little sense of connectedness that I get here in cyberspace. The difficulty for me today is that the word "church" appears to have become highly abused. Take the phrase "go to church." Wayne Jacobsen (over at Lifestream - there's a link in my blogroll I think) says he could no more go to church than he could go to himself. Because church is what he is. It is certainly what I am, though I'm sure I could be relating to the body better… whatever that means. I guess I'm trying to say I don't hate church… the bride of Christ but I'm sure uncomfortable with how she behaves right now. I long for those simple connections that define what the church really is, unfortunately unless you swallow the church-as-a-Sunday-deal paradigm you're kinda hosed in a lot of circles. I'm trying to remember that life is a journey. I don't have to climb Everest in a day. Thanks again for sharing your story. Peace to you. Davida… thank you so much for sharing your story. Its funny but life can be so lonely sometimes. Even in a crowd. That’s how I’m feeling right now. But I appreciate the little sense of connectedness that I get here in cyberspace.

The difficulty for me today is that the word “church” appears to have become highly abused. Take the phrase “go to church.” Wayne Jacobsen (over at Lifestream – there’s a link in my blogroll I think) says he could no more go to church than he could go to himself. Because church is what he is. It is certainly what I am, though I’m sure I could be relating to the body better… whatever that means.

I guess I’m trying to say I don’t hate church… the bride of Christ but I’m sure uncomfortable with how she behaves right now. I long for those simple connections that define what the church really is, unfortunately unless you swallow the church-as-a-Sunday-deal paradigm you’re kinda hosed in a lot of circles.

I’m trying to remember that life is a journey. I don’t have to climb Everest in a day.

Thanks again for sharing your story. Peace to you.

]]> By: Davida http://underthegrace.com/?p=47&cpage=1#comment-42 Davida Thu, 15 May 2008 00:18:28 +0000 http://underthegrace.com/?p=47#comment-42 jeff, i stumbled upon your blog through Kingdom Grace, whose blog I stumbled upon through Post Carismatic whose blog I stumbled upon through a guy who used to be a part of the ministry i worked for and was a part of for many years. if i was really internet savvy, i would have links to those blogs for you, but, uh...i dunno how. anyway, a longish intro to basically say this: in that ministry i would now tell people to run from (for the most part) i was a missionary, church planter (failed), thought people really wanted to live their faith. now i hate church. after coming back from overseas about 18 months ago, i only went to church a handful of times the first 10 months and most of those times were after being asked (badgered) by my mom (i'm not mad at her for this, i know she is concerned about me and in her paradigm, i need to be in church). the church that my family attends has over 1,000-ish people at every service. quite intmidating when you've just gone four years with a small handful of people and when the space you meet in wouldn't even handle more than 20-ish people. i felt totally disconnected. anyway, about 8 months ago i found a smaller church that is closer to where i live and they have a decent young adults ministry. anyway, i've gone to church more and have meet some nice people and all, but last sunday, it was still there. i hate church. i decided it was time to take a break from it again. still build the relationships i have there, but not go to sunday service. we'll see how that goes. sorry for this random spilling of my guts, but there are only a small handful of people i can converse with about this IRL and they are all hundreds of miles away. also, i have not quite gotten the guts to start posting about these things on my own blog. maybe i should though. jeff, i stumbled upon your blog through Kingdom Grace, whose blog I stumbled upon through Post Carismatic whose blog I stumbled upon through a guy who used to be a part of the ministry i worked for and was a part of for many years. if i was really internet savvy, i would have links to those blogs for you, but, uh…i dunno how. anyway, a longish intro to basically say this: in that ministry i would now tell people to run from (for the most part) i was a missionary, church planter (failed), thought people really wanted to live their faith. now i hate church. after coming back from overseas about 18 months ago, i only went to church a handful of times the first 10 months and most of those times were after being asked (badgered) by my mom (i’m not mad at her for this, i know she is concerned about me and in her paradigm, i need to be in church). the church that my family attends has over 1,000-ish people at every service. quite intmidating when you’ve just gone four years with a small handful of people and when the space you meet in wouldn’t even handle more than 20-ish people. i felt totally disconnected. anyway, about 8 months ago i found a smaller church that is closer to where i live and they have a decent young adults ministry. anyway, i’ve gone to church more and have meet some nice people and all, but last sunday, it was still there. i hate church. i decided it was time to take a break from it again. still build the relationships i have there, but not go to sunday service. we’ll see how that goes.

sorry for this random spilling of my guts, but there are only a small handful of people i can converse with about this IRL and they are all hundreds of miles away. also, i have not quite gotten the guts to start posting about these things on my own blog. maybe i should though.

]]> By: Jeff http://underthegrace.com/?p=47&cpage=1#comment-41 Jeff Tue, 13 May 2008 15:44:15 +0000 http://underthegrace.com/?p=47#comment-41 <strong>Erin</strong> - Thank you for your understanding. I didn't anticipate the alone-ness this has brought. <strong>Grace</strong> - Anomaly. I like that. I do want to authentically follow the leading of the Spirit as I see it (in a humble subjective sort of way) while at the same time honoring those who truly belong to the kingdom. It feels like a tight-rope sometimes. Thanks. Erin – Thank you for your understanding. I didn’t anticipate the alone-ness this has brought.

Grace – Anomaly. I like that. I do want to authentically follow the leading of the Spirit as I see it (in a humble subjective sort of way) while at the same time honoring those who truly belong to the kingdom. It feels like a tight-rope sometimes. Thanks.

]]> By: grace http://underthegrace.com/?p=47&cpage=1#comment-40 grace Tue, 13 May 2008 14:47:47 +0000 http://underthegrace.com/?p=47#comment-40 Jeff, I understand what you are describing, the nagging doubt that there is something wrong with us which is the reason we don't fit. To be honest, I don't know what the outcome will be. Will we discover the label of stubborn and idealistic is true? Or will we discover confidence in the dream that led us away from the box? Personally, I have adopted the term anomaly in thinking about myself. It feels better than misfit. Jeff,
I understand what you are describing, the nagging doubt that there is something wrong with us which is the reason we don’t fit.

To be honest, I don’t know what the outcome will be. Will we discover the label of stubborn and idealistic is true? Or will we discover confidence in the dream that led us away from the box?

Personally, I have adopted the term anomaly in thinking about myself. It feels better than misfit.

]]> By: Erin http://underthegrace.com/?p=47&cpage=1#comment-39 Erin Tue, 13 May 2008 04:31:30 +0000 http://underthegrace.com/?p=47#comment-39 I understand every word, Jeff. Really. Can't quite bring myself to submit to the system again, even when I found a healthier place to go. I understand every word, Jeff. Really. Can’t quite bring myself to submit to the system again, even when I found a healthier place to go.

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